The Politics Of Dancing
January 23, 2008
I was trying to put my thoughts together on a review I am doing of Amber Green’s Bareback. Then it occurred to me that I would probably spend the entire review simply relating an issue I have with some Gay Romances in general when it comes to using the old Straight To Gay Male Character Story Arc.
So first let’s put some of my own personal opinions about male sexuality in regards to Bisexuality and Homosexuality out on the table here…
The Northwestern University in Illinois and the Center for Addiction and Mental Health in Toronto created probably one of the most controversial reports recently in a little study they did with self-identified Bisexual men. Taking a group of these Bisexual men they proceeded to wire their dicks up and showed them both male-male and girl-girl and then male-girl porn. Well Gee Whiz! Guess what? They found that 75% of these guys responses mostly mirrored the Gay male control group.
Oh My God! Does that mean that the other 25% were closeted Straight guys?
Well no, not in my opinion, I think those guys were most likely quite happy with the ease that Gay guys have in getting laid on a regular basis, that’s all. Why buy the bull when you can get the horns for free?
See, I don’t find this study all that radical to my, most likely pessimistic, view of the world as long as it is taken with some common sense and the knowledge that it in no way discusses the human side of the equation.
There is a strong dichotomy in men (Gay-Bi-Straight) between physical sex and emotional love.
MEN ARE PIGS!
For the price of a couple of shots and a six-pack of beer and the promise of a discreet blow job or a quick fuck with no potential ramifications they will pretty much do anything sexually you might want to do, man on man sex, affair with the secretary, wild weekend orgy.
But!… When it comes to who they want to meet dear old mom and dad… WELL! That’s a whole different can-o-worms.
Right guys?
The Northwestern study simply misses that one key thing in how men think about sex. From my point of view Bisexual experiences are just about access and opportunity helped out if there are no social consequences, which means ultimately nothing emotionally to a guy, and are as common as dirt to the typical young adventurous randy male.
Bisexual emotions on the other hand are probably, in adult males at least, the most rare of occurrences. I’m not gonna say it can’t happen, I am just gonna say don’t go holding your breath when trying to find this special person. There would most likely have to be a lot more complexities to the situation for that to happen.
I forgot to mention that women were also tested and that they are most likely to be truly Bisexual. No DUH!
So as the article states Women are from Venus AND Mars, Men are from Venus OR Mars.
So add in the common institutionally enforced Bisexuality like in the military or prison and the sexual experimentation of teenagers and what you get with this line of thinking is that 75% of the guys in that study were from a homophobic background and are simply in the normal process of coming to terms with being great big, man lovin, queens. They are claiming to be Bisexual because of self denial. This my friends has a whole bunch of people upset and very bitter. Now in my nasty little mind that indicates someones getting close to some truth.
Just don’t talk about this too much because it’s yet another sensitive issue for those more conservative insecure macho guys. If sex is transitional but preference is permanent or genetic then no matter how over the top you perform in bed with a woman if you are not emotionally available to them but are always there for your buddies, um well… Which leads us to that wonderful cliché “It’s all just a phase they are going through.”
So what am I getting at in regards to the old Straight To Gay Male Character Story Arc?
Simply smacking any old Straight male character with the whole “Surprise you are a Gay Romance Hero!” story line is bull even if he is secretly Bisexual. The Hero should always have been more intimate emotionally with men besides whatever sexual experiences he has had. So in other words making someone Gay because of sex alone does not do it for me. (Contemporary Romance wise, Paranormal Romance you can carefully use several magical ways to get by this up front.) If you honestly want to write this type of story you should make it clear the “Straight” Hero has an awareness that this has always been the way he “felt” despite whatever takes place sexually.
Sex is transitional but preference is permanent or genetic gives you a rich ground work to explore your character with. So why shorthand this aspect with a couple of sex scenes? That does not convince anyone who has thought this whole thing through or in my case experienced it.
I am only pointing out a particular problem and I am in no way trying to be mean to Amber Green here and I am not making any accusation of some type of homophobia at all. I just find the whole “Straight Women writing books about Gay Men for other Straight Women” explanation given for when a story fails in this way suspect. Would anyone have the nerve to say they are White Women writing books about African Americans for other White Women?
I do not think so, I could be wrong though.
See why I keep saying Contemporary Romance is fraught with peril?
Simply smacking a male character with the whole “Surprise you are a Gay Romance Hero!” story line is bull even if he is Bisexual. The Hero should always have been more intimate emotionally with men besides whatever sexual experiences he has had.
Suze Brockmann’s Jules (out) and Robin (thinks he’s straight. snort.) works because the internal dialog is that Robin has always felt different. But without that? meh. Not going to work. Which leads me right back to the goddamn BDB JR Ward stuff because it didn’t make sense to me that they DIDN’T have a sexual relationship. They were clearly bisexual(by the above definition).
I thought this was a paranormal book. Doesn’t this dude feed off of sex to maintain his human appearance? Wouldn’t that mean he’d have sex with a sheep to keep his form? Is he really straight? Gar. Now I have read this.
It is a Paranormal but the transition of the Straight Hero takes a half a chapter and the only contemplation about the whole process is if he will like yogurt now. Amber does make some attempt to explain it better later in the story but the back loading did not work for me.
I am still working on the actual review but pick this and Light’s Out! from Amber Green her writing voice is gorgeous. My main problem is with the story mechanics.
Yeah. You articulated that well. Then again, the whole straight to gay transition really doesn’t feel plausible to me, and if it’s going to be included, I agree that for me as a reader I want an explanation as to why.
And Lisabea, word on the whole Butch/Vishous thing, although that bothers me because, from all I’ve heard, Vishous’s feelings for Butch are characterized as something he did before he fell for a woman. Which to me sounds like Ward basically said the whole V/B thing was just a stepping stone and therefore not worth much. I also read an ebook recently with an F/F scene that felt that way for me. I can’t remember the name of the book, but I know I quit reading when the author pretty much came out and said that her heroine was boinking the maid or whoever so she’d be experienced enough to deal with a man. WTF?
It’s not just an explanation though. You have to set the character up for this Gay Romance deal. It’s like what the Oracle said to Neo in The Matrix…
Being the one is just like being in love. No one can tell you you’re in love. You just know it. Through and through. Balls to bones.
The Hero who is supposedly always been or acted straight should have a clue that he has never had emotional fulfillment with a woman because he has always been closer with his male buddies. There has to be self awareness in order to make the leap into falling in love.
He should not just wake up after getting a really incredible blow job and decide he wants to be Gay.
Guys who like great sex are just guys who like great sex not HEA material.
Teddypig: Forgive me for leading this discussion into a morning in the Phade, but,I’m stuck on the V/B thing. I just want to rewrite my entire Lover Unbound review now. V is in love with a man. Period. The end. And when he instantly falls in love with a woman it has as much believability as the scenario of the straight man “turning” gay. Oh. The pain! The pain!
I’m still a huge crack head over those books, as well you know, because they rule the universe of hip/stupid/fun/sexy/camp. BUT the V/B dynamic is a perfect model for the bisexual/gay relationship. I mean, that vampire can’t have straight sex with a woman unless she is faceless, tied down, incapable of speach, and subservient. But he is tender with Butch. Which makes it all the more hot, IMO. He full out admits his love and desire for Butch. Then Sha-zaam! he finds his mate. I’m like NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!
sorry. sorry. sorry. I’ll quit now and we can get back to our regularly scheduled program.
also too early to spell today. sue me.
Also: In With Caution Remy gives that great blow job, and he’s like, Me? I’m not GAY! But he sooo obviously is. Wonderful. (And the gay fireman I’ve been searching for.)
Go for it Lisabea.
From what you are describing, it sounds like V can only have sex with a women if they are seen as non-entities (The whole faceless, helpless, subservient thing.)
The only person he can love and make love to where the person remains an equal like himself is B.
Remember: Remy had the little brother he emotionally treated as his own son. If he admitted that he was not only Gay but in a Gay relationship and his father found out then he was worried his father would take it out on his little brother. So in that one case self denial was for selfless protection.
Maybe I’m the one who’s missing something, but I guess I didn’t take this story the same way. Joe’s early sexual experiences consisted of wanking off with a guy, and he apparently had at least a taste of man-tail as a teenager in the Navy. So does this story really fit the Straight to Gay arc?
Blue those are only briefly mentioned and he seems to me to almost regret those events. But no, that does not indicate he is Gay since Gay is not like a disease or some form of cooties.
Ya don’t just get Gay because you got drunk and went home with some drunken sailor, such as myself for example. If he had expounded at all on those events or even showed any signs of enjoyment then maybe that might show a progression. I did not get the idea he enjoyed those memories much. If it had even come out that his wife divorced him because he spent all his time working out and partying with his male friends and he had been emotionally distant from her but had several best buddies. There’s an indicator of progression.
Being Gay is self awareness of what you really want, it happened with me very young but I have met guys where it took time to sink in. There are tons of Gay fathers out there. It’s not a condition that suddenly happens though without short circuiting a huge amount of socially encouraged denial. Talk to any Gay guy who was married and had kids, so they had Straight sex, but now swears he is 100% Gay and he most likely will tell you he always was Gay.
So…are you complaining because Joe opened a long-barred door and stepped through it too readily, or are you complaining because he didn’t slam it shut behind him quickly enough? Joe’s on the road and in motion, but he’ll need a while to get comfortable with his direction and his destination.
I’m taking notes here. The buddy focus I initially had was fuzzed out in an effort to concentrate more attention on Joe and Brian. Bad move? Okay. Now I know.
By the way, this week’s many adventures included an electric bill totalling close to twenty times what it should be. Naturally, I opened it right after everything closed for the weekend. I told some friends that if I stroke out this weekend, make sure Talquin Electric gets sued. Hearing “gorgeous” does help, though. Thank you.
The book was wonderfully textured and the characters had depth.
All I am saying is Joe was surprised about his reaction to Brian. In the case of someone ready to fall into any type of relationship you most likely have already toyed with the idea of involvement. An HEA in the case of a Gay relationship when you use someone “Straight” depends on the stability of that self realization.
The barred door just never came up but yeah if you had showed him having these really close relationships with guys and maybe that is why he got divorced then that is a great subtle indicator he was always emotionally bent to be intimate with guys. I think the only thing I remember he seemed to think about was if he would like yogurt now. Just seemed too pat, the whole process needed more of an arc.
Thank you. Still making notes here. Like leave in the meatloaf jokes next time.
On a hot summer night would you offer your throat to the wolf with the red roses?
Will he offer me his mouth?
Yes
Will he offer me his teeth?
Yes
Will he offer me his jaws?
Yes
Will he offer me his hunger?
Yes
I came at this before from a different angle but got basically the same answer. I asked someone recently if all bi guys weren’t really mostly gay because why else would you put up with the societal crap to have sex with another guy. The someone said no. A lot of guys don’t think of themselves as gay at all — they just (I’m putting this in my own words and cleaning it up) are willing to stick their penises in almost anything that will give them pleasure.
I suspect that in RL if a female showed up in the midst of a pair of guys who really do identify themselves as mostly interested in men with maybe a little female on the side, the guys would have sex with each other, have sex with each other, go watch porn together … and the woman could go cook dinner by herself or something equally fun.
I am now curious about what you think would happen if you tossed a female in with two guys are good buddies and who happen to be willing to stick their penises in almost anything that will give them pleasure. My guess is they’d have sex with the woman if she’d go for it, maybe have more sex with the woman if she’d go for it (or with each other if she was tired) and then the guys would go watch porn together, leaving the woman to cook dinner by herself.
I bet you say that to all the guys.
Well Treva,
The only reason I really brought all this up was in Romance you want to shoot for the HEA and make it work. Now based on your example… You really want to trip on interesting mixes? Think of two Gay guys getting a Lesbian pregnant. Sexually even in RL I think anything can and has happened.
When I first read that article my thought was “That! Is why I never date college kids”. The concepts in that article point to the fact society wants to look at male sexuality as black or white. I, being a pig, think men are more emotionally black or white since they hate the mushy stuff.
Take the recent bruhaha around Senator Larry Craig. He has what? A wife and three kids? Yet he was caught cruising a public mens room. In fact he is not the only “Straight” guy cruising public bathrooms in my experience which is probably why the police were there. Now, most Gay men could not be bothered to do such a thing these days since it is far less dangerous to just go do take out at the local Gay bar or cruise Craig’s List. Or hell, find a bathhouse there are still a few around.
How many thousands of “Straight” men are in the Senator’s position and are they really living a lie, trapped in a web of social expectations, or do they just want to suck cock and go home? Hell if I know, I would never marry a guy that goes around tapping men’s feet, but it sure sounds like they need to be more careful.
You know, Josh Lanyon handled the set up for Snowball in Hell exactly right. There was no question in my mind that Matt acted in character. He’d messed around with guys in the service and felt no remorse or weirdness about it. Then was happily married until his wife died. His angst was not that he was falling in lust for a man but that their actions were illegal. Which made for an extremely good read.
How many thousands of “Straight” men are in the Senator’s position and are they really living a lie, trapped in a web of social expectations, or do they just want to suck cock and go home? Hell if I know, but it sounds like they need to be more careful.
I’d venture to guess it’s both. The titillation factor of doing something you think is “wrong” while not wanting to get caught makes those types of sexual encounters addictive. Not that I would know but I’ve read A LOT. heh. I’m thinking that those men aren’t gay, they want sex and will take/give it however they can.
But there are far too many folks living in quiet desperation. One of my dearest friend’s husband is so miserably, obviously in the closet and their marriage is based on pretention, wealth building, and social obligation. At 50+. That’s no way to live.
Now see, Lisa I was cured of that.
I used to work at Marriott’s Great America during the summer when I was in High School. Anyway, my last year working there I was in the locker room getting ready to head out and one of the guys who wore the Bugs Bunny suit cruised me. It was my first cruise! I was getting hit on by Bugs Bunny.
God, all sorts of wrong!
Anyway, so we went in the park to the IMAX theater and started making out then decided to get down and dirty. So we walked around to the back of the park where the employees played softball.
So there he was on his knees, my pants at half mast, giving me my first blow job ever when suddenly the night was filled with search lights and the entire security team was looking at us. Yeah, Bugs Bunny was giving me a blow job and I got busted by Mormons. Standing there hurriedly pulling my pants up, I realized that public sex was not really that much fun.
So now you know.
I’m trying to remember public places sex acts in my history, and, nope, too repressed. Great imagery though. I’ll never look at bugs quite the same way again.
For some insider information Marriotts, at least when I worked for them, was a Mormon owned and operated company.
Oh and Lisa, Bugs is a great kisser.
Now you have me wondering how many cartoon characters I’d be willing to have public sex with. Bugs, sure. Mickey–no way. Daffy. Ooooo, now THAT could be interesting.
But not in front of Mormons.
I was reading John Irving once, The World According To Garp I believe, and I suddenly realized I could really relate to the hero.
Fact is stranger than fiction.
Which is why you need to make the fiction, no matter how outlandish, as believable as possible.
Believable is exactly right.
Some women Treva, I think might only really want good sex and the emotional depth of a friendship out of a Gay guy or any relationship as you are talking about, and yeah, I frankly think a couple of Gay guys would probably be able do that for her. I’ve met a few fuck buddies. That’s a more Gay male thing I think. Even though I think friendships can totally have a sexual tension underneath. But… an Emotionally Moving Deep relationship and a lifetimes commitment if either party happens to stumble across real love?
No Way!
But hey, you see “Straight” marriages like that all the time.
Clarification needed. Between a woman and two guys or two guys. Or does it matter?
Between a Straight woman and a Gay man. Sex is possible but long term commitment would be difficult.
Sigh. In her case, Teddypig, a long term relationship seems all the more endless because there is no sex. NO SEX. NO SEX!
Gosh. My old man can go, uh, about 10 minutes without sex before he’s all, hey, let’s do it. 19 years.
Ah. Yes. Interesting story but probably not a romance. At least not one with a HEA. Then again, it’s difficult enough to have a long term relationship with a guy who is excited about having sex with a particular woman and is really into her. But at least you have a fighting chance then.
I could seriously see a lot closer and longer relationship (once again not a romance) between them if there wasn’t sex.
Lisa,
That is not exactly what I was saying. Sex can happen and it happens all the time, just like all those Gay fathers out there who did it the old fashioned way.
It just won’t mean any emotional commitment, just like all those divorced Gay fathers out there who did it the old fashioned way.
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