There Are No Grades Of Vanity…
March 12, 2008
I dropped New Concepts Publishing off my links page today. I am getting really pissed off at continually reading the craptastic treatment that my eBook Writers are getting from what I consider thinly disguised Vanity Press scum bags. Can we stop promoting these assholes and giving them awards now? Please?
You might think I am including those companies like Lulu, but hey, I call Lulu what it calls Lulu… a Self Publisher. Lulu is fabulously above board all the way. They offer a menu of services for various prices and provide them flat out. You as a writer get what you pay for in creating an eBook or POD book and a place to sell it even. Can anyone really say they did not know what they were buying into with Lulu?
Oh no, I my friend am talking about companies that have you sign away print rights but only take the book to print if you pay the frigging printing fee or companies that are run by owners who have multiple pen names to make it look like they have several “successful” writers in their inner circle when in fact it is only them publishing their egolicious selves.
So in summary
Self Publisher = GOOD Like Lulu, which is open about providing a menu of services and not telling people they are like our Lady of Samhain or Loose Id, you know REAL ePublishers that like do everything actual publishers do and do it well and NEVER ASK FOR FEES. I have bought several books from Lulu and the quality of the books and the packaging itself is pretty dang decent.
Vanity Publisher = BAD Any publisher stating it is an ePublisher but hiding any number of hidden fees (cover art or printing for example), non-negotiable contracts that take away rights to any service the company does not provide (Audio book rights without providing any audio book services etc etc), or failing to meet any of the standards set by REAL Honest-to-God ePublishers.
What are these mysterious ePublisher standards I am ranting about? Well, that can get a bit vague but let’s dissect some of the basic ideas I generally am found mumbling about in local comment threads while slamming my head on the monitor.
Yog’s Law
Money flows toward the writer
Oh sorry, this is not a standard it’s a frigging eBook Writer’s LAW. Learn it, live it, love it.
WebSite
This is something I notice as a customer first and foremost, not to mention I work on a very well known banking website myself. Has anyone ever really looked at New Concepts Publishing website? Let’s face the facts folks! Next to Ellora’s Cave or Loose Id it sucks a mighty wind. I keep hearing most of the money an ePublisher makes comes from drawing return customers to it’s own website so if the Vanity Press website looks like crap… They probably are going to treat their writers like crap too. NO DUH!
I don’t make any money on this damn blog and you don’t want to know how much money I have thrown away creating this thing but if the Pig can throw good money at a website then so can they. In fact they have more reason to be spending it because they are supposed to be making it… The turkeys!
Editing
This is something I notice as a reader. It actually kills me when I see one of my eBook Writers with talent being neglected by some shit for brains editor who can not even be bothered in the least to correct the spelling errors. Most good editors I have actually seen doing their editing thing (Like our patron saint Angela of The Sam of Hain) help not just with spelling errors and grammar fubars but they work their magic to help a writer hone their story. I’ve watched them change the flow of the action in a story, transform secondary characters into sequel bait on the fly and focus scenes to keep the readers interest. Voodoo stuffs like that.
Editing is also the main area where even the rumored TOP ePublishers can be differentiated between. I know the difference between a great editor like Sasha from Sam of hain and some new editor from Loose Id in a couple of pages. So if the editor is almost nonexistent or you wish they were I would be really worried that you have fallen victim to the Vanity Press because I have not read many drafts that would have been good books if they had remained unedited.
Cover Art
OK, so Changeling Press has Poser cover art, go figure, and I can see where if you find a niche market like Furry Romance Readers that obviously accept Poser cover art so you can sell the living daylights out of Debby Does A Dragon. Packaging is everything to me as a Pig. How many people out there want to sell Furry Romances though? There is absolutely nothing wrong with using a good stock photo but when some hack with Photoshop then stretches and mangles the dang thing that makes the baby graphics artist in me sad.
In all honesty as a customer just go look at Liquid Silver or Samhain and if the dang covers of whatever company you are writing for can not even come close to their worst then consider simply buying stock photos yourself (They are relatively cheap.) and demanding that those Vanity Press mongrels use them. I mean, if you were a Vanity Press wouldn’t you leverage your frigging God given vanity? Sheesh!
Printing
Now, I am no insider Pig but I hear this magic phrase used often. No no no, not POD that’s so 90s, please girl.
No, I hear the phrase Ingrams, and when some ePublisher turns out to use that service managers of independent bookstores ears start perking up. Promotional magic seems to magically happen and suddenly I can get them to stock all my lovely eBook Writers. So, I ain’t all that sure what an Ingrams is but ask around and only write for companies that use it and you too may find yourself writing eBooks that then show up in actual bookstores all with the help of one of these mysterious TOP ePublishers that all these fly by night asshole Vanity Press dawgs tell everyone they are.
Inner Circles
This last one is very vague in a way but I think it covers several things I have heard go on in the typical Vanity Press. Like say an owner secretly using a several different pen names on the exact same website but still writing and selling the exact same style of genre. I understand why authors use various pen names but this is about the intent to be dishonest or about a deception.
That’s what really starts me thinking that whatever company we are talking about has real problems. I mean, the occasional writer getting upset over a late or missed royalty payment or a bad relationship with an editor or a messy rejection of a story. Hey, It can happen and it ain’t fun I figure but… When I hear about Inner Circles and small groups of the owners friends and lots of different pen names being used to make things look like something that it is not. That’s when the hair goes up on my head. AND When it begins to sound more like a Crackpot religion and less like a professional company I am so frigging out of there.
Anyway, that’s all the hints I got for identifying the dreaded Vanity Press.
Well, except for the Teddy Pig recommended list of ePubs that is…
Recommended ePublishers
- Amber Quill Press
- Aspen Mountain Press
- Belgrave House
- Cerridwen Press
- Changeling Press
- Cobblestone Press
- Drollerie Press
- Ellora’s Cave
- Liquid Silver Books
- Loose Id
- Man Love Romance Press
- Samhain
- The Wild Rose Press
And a word to the wise… If I did not list the company you write for here um, I may know something you do not. Check my points above and think about it.
UPDATE!
Torquere Press response: But THEY started it first! We write about Gay people so love us for it.
So Vanity Press… let’s see kids…
Amazon.com shows 99 books in print published by Torquere Press
S.A. Clements has 3
Mike Shade has 1
Sean Micheal has 31
B.A. Tortuga has 14
Rough count that makes a total of 49 books out of 99 by owner Shawn Clements
Another owner Lorna Hinson whom I know writes as Julia Talbot has 7 books in print I think there might be more Pen Names here but I lost track.
That brings the total amount of Owner printed books to 56 out of 99 total books in print from Torquere Press. What’s the percentage of Vanity there? Anyone know?
After that Chris Owen has 11
Hmmmmmm…
***And this late in the game admission is one of the many reasons they will never be on my list.
That’s a great list, there. Good for readers, good for writers. Thanks Teddy Pig!
Thanks for the glowing words of recommendation, Teddy. I only hope I can always live up to those, but I promise to do my best (and I hope that you still feel the same after a night of bar hopping–don’t think I’m going to let you back out of that one!)
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Darling, Debbie Does a Dragon and His Twin Brother is my next book coming out from dingleberry press!
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I’ll pass on the compliments about the site. I have absolutely no hand at all in creating that since I am the techno-peasant of LI management. And yours is lovely, kind sir. But as to the editing, if it helps, any “new” editors we have at Loose Id (and that includes experienced “new” editors who have worked elsewhere in publishing) have senior editors looking over their shoulder. We all want to do it right.
And of course many of us know a fair amount of dirt about a lot of publishers if we stay in the same circles long enough. But I’ve also learned no one knows everything or maybe even the whole story on what they think they know. We used to recommend other publishers when we thought a story had merit but didn’t work for us. I am much more hesitant to go there nowadays because if I recommend someone, I want to feel like I know I’m doing the right thing by an author. Things change — for good and bad — quickly around here.
Treva,
I was not talking good or bad there so much as experienced versus inexperienced maybe. Editing does add something to the eBook like when I read Ellora’s Cave the editing tends to come across to me more utilitarian than I guess you would call it tonality or shaping of the story telling.
Now the total lack of editing skills is a whole different story I am sure you know.
To me it’s the same as say a writer being good at short stories versus a writer being good at novels. It’s not good or bad really but I do notice a different set of skills.
Damn you, I have to add another site to my blogroll! I hate you–it’s not like I don’t spend enough time on the Interwebs. Why do you have to be so lucid and intelligent and write about books I love.
Anyway.
What, no Torquere?!
So what do you know about Torquere that I don’t?
I’ve been with them 4 years and have been pretty happy with the working relationship.
Yog’s Law has been my writing motto since day one.
New writers should always Always aim for the top tier publishers first. Don’t automatically try to contract everything you have now and eventually write to one brand new company.
I’m game to take a chance on a new publisher now and again because I know it won’t tie up all my books if that particular experience doesn’t work out.
Rumor me this ePub my friends!
S.M. to S.A.C. to B.A.T.
someone says this list goes on to eternity
just like at Alinar or NCP
they say bad things all come in threes
so they must like bad company
when I mentioned one, I meant all three
check those “authors” and you will see
I hope this fits your question to a T
That’s what I refer to as Inner Circle, but I’m strongly doubting they’re one and the same.
I have my doubts one person could be so very prolific.
However, apart from those three, there are dozens of authors working for them. It’s an interesting bug you’ve put in my ear, and I may poke around some more, but they pay on time, and stuff is out on schedule.
That’s what I ask for in a publisher.
Granted, Ellora pays better…
(FTR, I made my first sale to the Monsters anthology and have gotten more prolific and spread to more publishers over the four intervening years, always as Angel or Angelia Sparrow.)
Honestly, I started out not knowing much about anything and not really caring what the fuck they were up to.
I just read a lot and noticed exactly what I just said above because it does not take a literary genius to figure it out especially if you start analyzing how someone writes dialog and scenes (well in this case sex scenes).
There are only three but at least one is four the others are doing the same thing but hell I got bored figuring out all the Where Is Waldo? crap.
The real scary stuff, the hard core, jaw dropping, you have got to be joking stuff… that I started hearing when I asked a few questions of those who have been around a while.
But the initial super secret handshake hush hush junk is what tuned me in.
Denmark, let me show you!
Interesting post Teddy :) I’m certainly happy with Aspen and Manlove and I hope I always bring something to the stories I edit!
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Maura,
From your Flash Fridays you need to be writing more and editing less. Because damn it, you need to get some good books with your name and writing out there girl!
OOOh - thank you, Teddy! That’s a great compliment coming from you! I took some meds for my hand so I’m almost finished with today’s Friday Flash - and it’s even male/male again, LOL.
I’ve limited my editing to two days a week but may eventually have to back off it more. Unfortunately (or fortunately?) I have a hard time letting go of my authors! I need them to be taken good care of, dammit!
But I’m chomping at the bit to get back to my stories, including the newly re-named Bittersweet.
*hugs* Pardon the girl cooties :)
Maura Anderson’s last blog post..Series vs. Serial
Oh girls don’t have cooties. The only cooties I ever got came from boys.
LOL. It’s kind of too bad you can’t hang out in the women’s bathrooms at romance writer conventions to get the real scoop. Although there was the one time in the bar during a convention that I heard what had happened in one restroom and after I was done laughing hysterically (OK, I’d a few drinks — my CP said the fact that I was relaxed proved that) I realized, “Oh, dear. Now I have to do something about that before we get in trouble.”
Haven’t been to a bar at a writer convention since. I decided sometimes you hear and see too much there. Besides authors and alcohol rarely mix well.
Teddy, dear, drop me e-mail with the jaw-dropping.
My co-author, Naomi, has been dissatisfied with the cliquishness of TQ for about a year now. I’ve been noticing more and more of it. We’ve been waffling on moving publishers, going entirely to EC (with the occasional command performance for Circle Dark), and you may have just tipped us. You’ve certainly made a lot of pieces fall into place.
I have an idea who is real in their own right (besides myself and Naomi), and now you have me wondering…
I must confess, I don’t read as much as I should, so I didn’t notice the similarities.
Angelia,
I am all about spreading the love and would never tell any writer to put all their eggs in one basket. Try a Samhain or a Loose Id or a Liquid Silver on for size.
I find those ePublishers very lovable.
It is probably not politic for me to say it as I consider TQ basically honest and functional, but I feel it is socially structured.
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Emily,
I only bring up these things because I do think from what I have read on Erec and other sites there are certain signs (Think of an onion) that can be used to get an overall picture.
Now everyone even if they are involved with a company may not see all these signs depending on what is being presented to them and their involvement with other writers.
Messy confusing or outdated website… this is easy to tell.
Inner Circle cliquish behavior… not as easy to tell.
Owners leveraging various pen names on their own site… harder to tell.
Once you start being able to check these off the list though then the next step might be to ask around.
Have any authors had “serious issues” with this company?
I think you would be as surprised as I was since I think it really shows the lack of communication that goes on in this business.
Teddy, I’ve strongly considered Samhain.
Loose-Id so misunderstood the last novel I sent them that their suggested edits (to make it palatable and give it an HEA) totally negated the previous 150 pages of story and relationships and characters. I have to think twice and three and four times before I send them anything else.
Don’t know much about Liquid Silver.
Ah! I remember it. Good story. It wasn’t that we misunderstood it. It was more we know what our readers will read, especially from a new-to-LI author.
Thanks, Treva. It wasn’t an easy book or a traditional romance. Sociopathic anti-heros are more mainstream or SF than romance.
At the moment, Naomi and I are hung up on a First Refusal Clause with Ellora, for anything over 20,000 words that isn’t a sequel, but we would be willing to give LI a second look for more mainstream stuff.
Well, I’m giving LS a try. We’ll see how they respond to my submission. I don’t really like having all my eggs in one basket, but I can’t always help it.
what’s everyone’s thoughts on Phaze/Mundania?
I’m hearing that they’re woefully behind on releasing books… any good? bad? whassup?
Maybe it’s a genre deal or maybe it’s me.
Phaze/Mundania as a gut reaction hit me as sorta like NCP or Triskellion used to before the scandals even.
Whatever they did to earn their reputation, does not seem to me as being continually earned.
Have you ever seen their books in an actual bookstore?
This is done nowadays why not them too?
Have you ever seen them use really awesome cover art?
This again can be done these days why not them too?
I read Sf and Fantasy too…
Next to Samhain or Loose Id do even their blurbs really attract anyone?
Teddy, my books with Phaze have some really nice cover art, but then I get right down there in the trenches with the artist and pull up stock photos, fonts, etc. The cover that won the 2007 Ariana for GLBT was for one of my books, and I did help out with that one.
They’re getting better with edits, and employing junior editors to go over things. My only complaint is that royalty statements and payment can be slow–last week I received my payment for January and December. I haven’t seen February’s statement yet–end of the month, I hear, but sometimes they’re late.
Phaze authors write their own blurbs. Some are good, some not so good.
Right, but at the point of having to do all that work.
I might be just asking myself why not buy all those services to my specs and my needs and go to Lulu?
In other words, you just described the type of overall work a Self Publisher would make you go through. So why let Phaze take credit for what you had to babysit them to do for you?
I can see every once in a while wanting a special cover or such… But having to babysit good edits?
Nah, that would be a NEXT PUBLISHER PLEASE! for me.
Even as senior as I am in my current work. I want to learn something. I want to know how professionals do things and handle business. That is the stuff that let’s me enjoy what I do even though I am paid very well to know what I know right now.
It’s all good for me to know how something is done right but I don’t want to have to teach someone how to do their job. Something I learned in the Navy. Not on my watch.
If I had the software and expertise to fully do my own covers I would. I’ve been burned with bad covers, really bad ones from other publishers, so I try to make sure I get something that fits the book. At least here I have that kind of input.
I know that two years ago there was a change at Phaze when the then-editor left. What things were like before, that I don’t know, so I’m not in a position to judge.
You are preaching to the choir here.
I am all about the packaging. I am a pig and have very strong opinions about what looks doable and what sucks.
You know what I get a kick out of?
I have come to enjoy the fact that most ePublishers I consider class acts that take very good care of their writers and don’t have any money problems to speak of and consistently do good work and hire good people… feel the same damn way.
what happened to Phaze getting their books into bookstores and on the shelves?
I can’t find them or Mundania books anywhere.
only problem with Lulu, Teddy - it’s not returnable. I think Phaze books and Mundania books are, tho Dan screams up a storm about returns and all that from what I hear…
But at least Lulu is honest even though I do not see their books on any bookstore shelves and frankly for all the back and forth I hear about Phaze/Mundania I keep wondering why people bother. Why not just admit you can’t make an obvious hobby publisher that comes pretty close to being nothing more than a glorified Self Publisher act like a “Real” ePublisher?
I see three ePublishers all the time on bookstore shelves Samhain, Loose Id, and Ellora’s Cave. That’s it folks! Then I see newer ePublishers attempting the same level of quality and editing and covers and doing a damn good job of it even though they have not reached the level of being distributed by Ingram.
So no matter how long so and so Company has been around, unless they are willing to replicate the successes of these other TOP ePublishers by the drive and the ambition and the hard work, the business plans and the professional services that those TOP ePublishers provide their writers why are you bothering with their excuses?
I don’t like the idea of selling writers on how much of a “family” you are. I don’t like the idea that writers have to leverage or be part of some “inner circle” to get professional level service. Publishing is a team effort but the most professional person on that team should not be the writer.
That is so cult like it scares me.
The top companies exude a very professional vibe. The ones on your list that I’ve worked with certainly do.
In defense of those who do not try to get their books in Borders, etc. the returns are killers. And you never know how much will be returned — it can actually be worse when you get big orders with big stores because the returns may also be big. That’s one reason why print is such a dicey business and why print publishers try very hard to play it safe in their choices.
But yes, Loose Id does have books in bigger bookstores. If you’re gonna do it, might as well gamble big, right?
They’re getting better with edits
Not from my perspective as a reader, they’re not. IMO Phaze edits worse than Torquere. I usually read a Phaze book every month or so, and I’ve noticed a huge dip in quality over the last few months. Don’t know if that’s because an editor left or what, but the number of typos and inaccuracies in recent titles is pretty mind-boggling. And I’ve read books where entire paragraphs and indeed pages could have been cut or edited down.
Maybe I’ve been unlucky with book choices but I know if I buy an ebook from Loose ID, Samhain, TotalEBound (I do like them, even though they’re not on your list) or EC then the writing tends to be tighter, there’s little extraneous waffling and while the occasional typo gets through it’s nothing on the grand scale of Phaze’s errors.
(Btw LE Bryce I don’t include your books in this comment, this is just a general observation based on my reading of Phaze books from December until now.)
but then if you’re not going to be able to put your books in bookstores (and there’s nothing wrong with that, considering more and more people are buying online!!!) then at least be honest about it.
I think that’s what frustrates a lot of authors. They get the impression that being listed with Ingrams and on Amazon.com is the same as having a distributor that’ll get them into bookstores and that’s not the case.
Treva, J.L. Langley has a whole shelf at A Different Light now and guess what Loose Id books are constantly being restocked?
Thanks for letting me know! I’ll make my partner check in on it when she next visits that store.
Thanks for the leg up Teddy! Liquid Silver seems to live below the radar and comments like Angelia’s makes me wanna shout who we are to the roof tops, “We’re a really great publisher!” LOL. But I’m not one to toot my own horn, so I appreciate the kudos you give on your blog.
And someday, we’ll take over the world…mmmmuuuuwaaaahhhh.
No … just kidding.
Really, I am. :)
Very illuminating post. Also very happy to see my epublisher on your recommended list. I’ve been pleased with the communication and the timely checks from Amber Quill. As for the cover art, check out the cover of my last ebook, The Midnight Effect. I never have to worry about the possibility of a bad cover.
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