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	<title>Comments on: Josh Lanyon: The Dark Tide</title>
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		<title>By: J.R. Ward: Dark Lover &#124; The Naughty Bits</title>
		<link>http://www.teddypig.com/2009/12/josh-lanyon-the-dark-tide/comment-page-1/#comment-4637</link>
		<dc:creator>J.R. Ward: Dark Lover &#124; The Naughty Bits</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Feb 2010 19:44:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.teddypig.com/?p=4210#comment-4637</guid>
		<description>[...] have so much respect for authors like Josh Lanyon who can whip out an interesting story while maintaining a single &#8220;point of view&#8221; of the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] have so much respect for authors like Josh Lanyon who can whip out an interesting story while maintaining a single &#8220;point of view&#8221; of the [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Mariana</title>
		<link>http://www.teddypig.com/2009/12/josh-lanyon-the-dark-tide/comment-page-1/#comment-3989</link>
		<dc:creator>Mariana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Dec 2009 03:13:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.teddypig.com/?p=4210#comment-3989</guid>
		<description>For me, I think that Adrien&#039;s nihilistic outlook of his life led to many of the decisions he made in his life.  He was expecting to die young, so why do anything really worthwhile?  He seemed to almost give up on everything; until he was faced with Jake leaving for good.  I think they were both sort of not willing to put themselves out there... Jake letting Adrien dictate the terms of the relationship; Adrien not fully realizing that he wasn&#039;t going to die young.

For all their flaws, Jake and Adrien are one of my top couples I&#039;ve read.

Oh, and I hated Mel.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For me, I think that Adrien&#8217;s nihilistic outlook of his life led to many of the decisions he made in his life.  He was expecting to die young, so why do anything really worthwhile?  He seemed to almost give up on everything; until he was faced with Jake leaving for good.  I think they were both sort of not willing to put themselves out there&#8230; Jake letting Adrien dictate the terms of the relationship; Adrien not fully realizing that he wasn&#8217;t going to die young.</p>
<p>For all their flaws, Jake and Adrien are one of my top couples I&#8217;ve read.</p>
<p>Oh, and I hated Mel.</p>
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		<title>By: TeddyPig</title>
		<link>http://www.teddypig.com/2009/12/josh-lanyon-the-dark-tide/comment-page-1/#comment-3982</link>
		<dc:creator>TeddyPig</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Dec 2009 05:31:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.teddypig.com/?p=4210#comment-3982</guid>
		<description>Emilie,

That&#039;s just not how it goes for me or anyone I know even if you date someone else gay or straight you then meet all their friends and family and go hang out at their favorite places. So even if Adrien did not have friends or lost his or something traumatic like that he then would at least acquire some acquaintances outside his immediate circle from these huge loves of his life Guy or Mel or even Jake. 

That is another thing that does not point to something I would expect to happen unless again he chose to isolate himself and only have these men as his social outlet as I said I did not say it was totally unrealistic that people can act this way but it is not healthy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Emilie,</p>
<p>That&#8217;s just not how it goes for me or anyone I know even if you date someone else gay or straight you then meet all their friends and family and go hang out at their favorite places. So even if Adrien did not have friends or lost his or something traumatic like that he then would at least acquire some acquaintances outside his immediate circle from these huge loves of his life Guy or Mel or even Jake. </p>
<p>That is another thing that does not point to something I would expect to happen unless again he chose to isolate himself and only have these men as his social outlet as I said I did not say it was totally unrealistic that people can act this way but it is not healthy.</p>
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		<title>By: Emilie</title>
		<link>http://www.teddypig.com/2009/12/josh-lanyon-the-dark-tide/comment-page-1/#comment-3981</link>
		<dc:creator>Emilie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Dec 2009 04:04:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.teddypig.com/?p=4210#comment-3981</guid>
		<description>*some spoilers if you haven&#039;t read the earlier books*  As Jenre notes, Adrien had a little circle of friends in Fatal Shadows, but they were taken out of the picture.  He only had so much energy, and he chose to put a lot of it into the bookstore.  But he had Jake part of the time for some months, then he was with Guy for a couple of years.  I don&#039;t see it as him being terribly isolated if he was seeing a fair amount of people a day at the shop, had the writers&#039; group once a week, and had a significant other for much of that time.  Sure, he could&#039;ve used some friends just to talk to, but it didn&#039;t seem like he&#039;d have any trouble getting some if he&#039;d really wanted to.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>*some spoilers if you haven&#8217;t read the earlier books*  As Jenre notes, Adrien had a little circle of friends in Fatal Shadows, but they were taken out of the picture.  He only had so much energy, and he chose to put a lot of it into the bookstore.  But he had Jake part of the time for some months, then he was with Guy for a couple of years.  I don&#8217;t see it as him being terribly isolated if he was seeing a fair amount of people a day at the shop, had the writers&#8217; group once a week, and had a significant other for much of that time.  Sure, he could&#8217;ve used some friends just to talk to, but it didn&#8217;t seem like he&#8217;d have any trouble getting some if he&#8217;d really wanted to.</p>
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		<title>By: TeddyPig</title>
		<link>http://www.teddypig.com/2009/12/josh-lanyon-the-dark-tide/comment-page-1/#comment-3976</link>
		<dc:creator>TeddyPig</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Dec 2009 18:20:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.teddypig.com/?p=4210#comment-3976</guid>
		<description>One word JMC... codependency. 

I get the trope but in this case even if it was a M/F after all the self sufficient kick ass and take names heroines I have read I would still be vaguely creeped out because of the lack of indication that this was a healthy choice for this particular type of person at this time.

But I agree, after all this reading I also wanted the HEA but felt I had to be honest.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One word JMC&#8230; codependency. </p>
<p>I get the trope but in this case even if it was a M/F after all the self sufficient kick ass and take names heroines I have read I would still be vaguely creeped out because of the lack of indication that this was a healthy choice for this particular type of person at this time.</p>
<p>But I agree, after all this reading I also wanted the HEA but felt I had to be honest.</p>
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		<title>By: jmc</title>
		<link>http://www.teddypig.com/2009/12/josh-lanyon-the-dark-tide/comment-page-1/#comment-3975</link>
		<dc:creator>jmc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Dec 2009 16:43:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.teddypig.com/?p=4210#comment-3975</guid>
		<description>Great review.  Like Katiebabs, I picked up the series after lurking here...except I&#039;ve read them all now :)

I thought a lot about Adrien&#039;s isolation in this book as I read, because it seemed more pronounced here than in earlier books, even as his relationship with his family took up more page space.  Felt ambivalent about it because it wasn&#039;t healthy, but since it is also a fairly standard romance trope, it wasn&#039;t really alien or remarkable.  In genre romance, the heroine is often abandoned or orphaned or isolated in some way, and part of the HEA, implicit or explicit, is the dissolution of that isolation by the bond created with the hero.  Often readers don&#039;t get to see the building of the new community or circle of friends/family, just a snippet of it via the obligatory epilogue.  Although AEM isn&#039;t genre romance, the comparison feels apt to me.  Ultimately Adrien getting over himself and reaching out to Jake will (I hope, as a reader) further reduce his self-imposed isolation, even though we don&#039;t get the romance-style epilogue with TDT.  

Or not. 

But the romance reader in me wants the HEA for them, even if Adrien was spineless and Jake a cipher for much of the series.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great review.  Like Katiebabs, I picked up the series after lurking here&#8230;except I&#8217;ve read them all now :)</p>
<p>I thought a lot about Adrien&#8217;s isolation in this book as I read, because it seemed more pronounced here than in earlier books, even as his relationship with his family took up more page space.  Felt ambivalent about it because it wasn&#8217;t healthy, but since it is also a fairly standard romance trope, it wasn&#8217;t really alien or remarkable.  In genre romance, the heroine is often abandoned or orphaned or isolated in some way, and part of the HEA, implicit or explicit, is the dissolution of that isolation by the bond created with the hero.  Often readers don&#8217;t get to see the building of the new community or circle of friends/family, just a snippet of it via the obligatory epilogue.  Although AEM isn&#8217;t genre romance, the comparison feels apt to me.  Ultimately Adrien getting over himself and reaching out to Jake will (I hope, as a reader) further reduce his self-imposed isolation, even though we don&#8217;t get the romance-style epilogue with TDT.  </p>
<p>Or not. </p>
<p>But the romance reader in me wants the HEA for them, even if Adrien was spineless and Jake a cipher for much of the series.</p>
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		<title>By: katiebabs</title>
		<link>http://www.teddypig.com/2009/12/josh-lanyon-the-dark-tide/comment-page-1/#comment-3974</link>
		<dc:creator>katiebabs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Dec 2009 16:24:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.teddypig.com/?p=4210#comment-3974</guid>
		<description>Very awesome review. I really, really have to read the series. Sitting in the monster TBR pile. Thanks TPig. You&#039;re an awesome book pimp.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very awesome review. I really, really have to read the series. Sitting in the monster TBR pile. Thanks TPig. You&#8217;re an awesome book pimp.</p>
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		<title>By: TeddyPig</title>
		<link>http://www.teddypig.com/2009/12/josh-lanyon-the-dark-tide/comment-page-1/#comment-3972</link>
		<dc:creator>TeddyPig</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Dec 2009 15:14:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.teddypig.com/?p=4210#comment-3972</guid>
		<description>Oh, I did not say it was totally unrealistic that people can act this way but it is not healthy for anyone in my opinion. And for those of you wondering did I like these books please observe I am trying to relate to the characters as people. 

You cannot tell me becoming a shut-in does wonders for ones emotional stability.

I think Jenre I was rooting for Adrien to change and grow and become healthier. I felt shorted in that area because as you said I saw him becoming even more isolated and hurt with each new book. He loses any normal balances in that regards so it is hard for me to root for him being with Jake since I really have no outside view that lets me know Jake is all that great for him.

All you really have to do is see what happens with Adrien physically through the whole series. With just all that we do not even really have to go into the emotional roller coaster ride Jake took him on.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, I did not say it was totally unrealistic that people can act this way but it is not healthy for anyone in my opinion. And for those of you wondering did I like these books please observe I am trying to relate to the characters as people. </p>
<p>You cannot tell me becoming a shut-in does wonders for ones emotional stability.</p>
<p>I think Jenre I was rooting for Adrien to change and grow and become healthier. I felt shorted in that area because as you said I saw him becoming even more isolated and hurt with each new book. He loses any normal balances in that regards so it is hard for me to root for him being with Jake since I really have no outside view that lets me know Jake is all that great for him.</p>
<p>All you really have to do is see what happens with Adrien physically through the whole series. With just all that we do not even really have to go into the emotional roller coaster ride Jake took him on.</p>
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		<title>By: Jenre</title>
		<link>http://www.teddypig.com/2009/12/josh-lanyon-the-dark-tide/comment-page-1/#comment-3971</link>
		<dc:creator>Jenre</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Dec 2009 15:02:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.teddypig.com/?p=4210#comment-3971</guid>
		<description>Adrien did have friends - Robert and Claude - and look what happened to them!  Mel was also his friend as well as a lover for a long time.

I just think that poor old Adrien has the worst luck.  Plus his sarcastic exterior puts people off - again something he admits himself in Fatal Shadows, so it&#039;s no wonder he has few friends.  You are right in saying that he does isolate himself - he rarely ventures out anywhere further than downstairs to his shop or to visit his family.  He doesn&#039;t go to clubs or bars any more - although he clearly did when he was younger as he seems to know quite a lot of bars.  He likes his own company and doesn&#039;t really seem interested in surrounding himself with people - some people are just like that and it&#039;s not entirely unrealistic to base a character on that type of personality.

I am reminded of a scene from THYS when Adrien pays a visit to his hairdresser and confesses that Jake has just dumped him.  The sympathy and fuss that he got at that point bemused him, but also made him feel better about himself.  Perhaps things may have gone a lot better for Adrien if he&#039;d had someone he could confide in.  But he didn&#039;t, so he had to muddle along by himself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Adrien did have friends &#8211; Robert and Claude &#8211; and look what happened to them!  Mel was also his friend as well as a lover for a long time.</p>
<p>I just think that poor old Adrien has the worst luck.  Plus his sarcastic exterior puts people off &#8211; again something he admits himself in Fatal Shadows, so it&#8217;s no wonder he has few friends.  You are right in saying that he does isolate himself &#8211; he rarely ventures out anywhere further than downstairs to his shop or to visit his family.  He doesn&#8217;t go to clubs or bars any more &#8211; although he clearly did when he was younger as he seems to know quite a lot of bars.  He likes his own company and doesn&#8217;t really seem interested in surrounding himself with people &#8211; some people are just like that and it&#8217;s not entirely unrealistic to base a character on that type of personality.</p>
<p>I am reminded of a scene from THYS when Adrien pays a visit to his hairdresser and confesses that Jake has just dumped him.  The sympathy and fuss that he got at that point bemused him, but also made him feel better about himself.  Perhaps things may have gone a lot better for Adrien if he&#8217;d had someone he could confide in.  But he didn&#8217;t, so he had to muddle along by himself.</p>
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		<title>By: Mandi</title>
		<link>http://www.teddypig.com/2009/12/josh-lanyon-the-dark-tide/comment-page-1/#comment-3970</link>
		<dc:creator>Mandi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Dec 2009 13:51:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.teddypig.com/?p=4210#comment-3970</guid>
		<description>But the mold brings out the green in Jake&#039;s eyes...how could Adrien resist? ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But the mold brings out the green in Jake&#8217;s eyes&#8230;how could Adrien resist? ;)</p>
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