Cause I’ve relied on my illusions
To keep me warm at night
But I denied in my capacity to love
I am willing, to give up this fight
Sarah McLachlan ~ Dirty Little Secret
From: New York Times ~ Many Successful Gay Marriages Share An Open Secret
New research at San Francisco State University reveals just how common open relationships are among gay men and lesbians in the Bay Area. The Gay Couples Study has followed 556 male couples for three years — about 50 percent of those surveyed have sex outside their relationships, with the knowledge and approval of their partners.
I know this is not very sexy or romantic but I guess this showed up in the news radar this week and ran through the talk show circuits like I am sure it would give anti-gay marriage personalities something to point to and say those fags do not deserve the right to get married. They can’t keep it in their pants. blah blah blah… I am used to that type of talk since I have been told often enough I am already living this supposed life of sin.
Now for me this studies findings are about as surprising as finding out gay guys like to suck cock. I know shocking right?
As I am sure you are wondering… YES! My two successful loving relationships in my life that lasted were both “open” including the one I am in now. As in the article are there “rules”? Sure, and respect and the agreement especially in such a small gossipy town to keep it out of sight. Yes, adult gay men living together and knowing men as well as we do we discuss this stuff. Because frankly why not and if you don’t and rely on assumptions and hearsay well, I have never seen that work.
You can go look in Wiki for even more revealing data on straight relationships… Infidelity
In a recent survey of 16,000 university students in 53 countries, 20% of long term relationships began when one or both partners were involved with someone else. Studies suggest that around 30–40% of dating relationships and 18–20% of marriages are marked by at least one incident of sexual infidelity. Men are more likely than women to have a sexual affair, regardless of whether or not they are in a married or dating relationship.
Notice the “men are more likely” now take that idea and times it by two. See what I mean, we gay guys are not dumb.
I honestly put too much time and emotional investment into a good relationship to throw it all away over my other half getting drunk in the backroom of some bar and getting a unplanned blow job or even a planned one for that matter. Sorry!
On the other hand I agree if there is an agreement over “not with that particular person” or some other problem like “lack of respect being shown for the partnership” or something else then that is a concern that needs to be addressed ASAP. To me that is separate from the sexual matters though.
Anyway, I am not going to deny this “open relationship” deal is anything but normal in the gay community. I have a very strong loving relationship and also to add just a note of reality… just because we both know it’s OK does not mean we act like those people in Boogie Nights or we actually get any. Hell, our sex lives are probably as boring as anyone else to be honest. *sigh*
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LVLM wrote,
The Gay Couples Study has followed 556 male couples for three years —
I wonder how they included lesbians in this when they only followed gay men in the study?
How many lesbian couples did they study? They don’t say.
I wonder, I’m not a lesbian but most of the lesbian couples I know are in long term monogamous relationships.
However, what I read in many lesbian romances though is that there is a lot of playing around and stepping out and it all seems to be normal and fine. It’s something I’ve noticed to be different than reading an m/f.
I can see gay men having that arrangement because in general men do seem to not want or need the monogamous thing and can separate sex from emotion easier, but I’d say it’s still different for women. Does that mean that the culture around being a lesbian trumps being a woman in the case of open relationships? Because I think if you studied those in a m/f relationship, most women would balk at the idea of sexual infidelity as something normal or OK no matter what the agreements.
And sexual infidelity within the straight world regardless of their study and how many people do it, is different than the “gay” world because in most cases the partners have not agreed to an open relationship. It’s usually one partner stepping out and hiding it.
Link | January 31st, 2010 at 3:35 pm
TeddyPig wrote,
Oh, I agree men and women are different when it comes to relationships. Different wants and needs even when you add in any cultural differences. I would not be surprised if there is not some genetic explanations for it all.
My point was that following the representation of infidelity among straight relationships and the preponderance of evidence that it is men doing most of the stepping out. Then it should be no surprise when you are studying two men in a relationship that some type of agreement was made to account for that happening without destroying an otherwise solid relationship.
Link | January 31st, 2010 at 3:51 pm
TeddyPig wrote,
I am also in no way saying that any guy who promises not to do that and then does is not a raging asshole. He betrayed a promise, he’s an asshole.
Link | January 31st, 2010 at 8:04 pm
Julia Rachel Barrett wrote,
The problem with infidelity is just that – being unfaithful to someone you’ve promised to be faithful to and lying about it. If all parties in a relationship freely agree to an open relationship, that’s a horse of a different color. It’s all about respect for your partner. If my husband cheated on me, lied about it and I found out, I’d take every single one of his possessions, pile them in the front yard, douse them with lighter fluid, wait until he pulled into the driveway and toss a lighted match into the pile. Cuz that’s how I roll. I am nasty possessive of my man. Back in the day when I was still in uncommitted relationships, my main partner/s and I agreed to see other people and it worked out all right. I wouldn’t say that men are necessarily the bad guys when it comes to cheating. Women are just a bit better at not getting caught – not personal experience, but from watching what friends and relatives have done…
Link | January 31st, 2010 at 9:06 pm
TeddyPig wrote,
We try and teach kids that sex is only a small part of a good relationship and then make infidelity this “huge deal” and characterize “open” relationships as immoral which I am sure is confusing.
The reality is I strongly suspect my parents who met in high school and were together till my mom passed away had issues around this. When you are looking at m/f relationships where people made those promises of fidelity when they were very young I bet you ten to one there was most likely some known infidelity that went on. It’s too bad it’s one of those things people will never talk about because I think the truth is far more enlightening.
I want to be in a relationship with a guy who wants to be with me and there are other things besides sex that are far more important to make it work. The rest is negotiable.
Link | February 1st, 2010 at 4:36 am
Julia Rachel Barrett wrote,
It is very unusual – especially if you married young or have experienced very few, if any, relationships outside of the one you are in, to stay together for a lifetime, or at least, to remain happy together for a lifetime. Marriage or a committed relationship is challenging for many reasons – sex is just one of those reasons. I would not want to be in the dating circus right now. Watching what happens to people makes me glad I sowed my wild oats when I did – as did my partner – and we are very committed to each other. I’ve taught my children to be honest with themselves first and then honest with those people who matter, who are counting on them. I think a lot of people lie to themselves about what they are really feeling. It’s like the recent increase in teen pregnancy – the reluctance to use birth control because that would be admitting you’re having sex when you are supposed to abstain. Lying to yourself doesn’t work.
Link | February 1st, 2010 at 7:42 am